Tuesday, September 8, 2009

Problem with the EGR valve

The Multijet engine fitted in my diesel Swift has a cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system. The basic function of EGR is to reduce NOx emissions by recirculating small amounts of cooled exhaust gas into the engine's intake system when required.

The EGR Valve has an exhaust passage into it, and an intake passage from it. The valve is controlled by an electronic actuator. This electronic actuator is in turn controlled by the engine’s ECU (electronic control unit or on-board computer). Depending on parameters like engine RPM, coolant temperature, etc., the ECU sends commands to the electronic actuator to open (to varying degrees) at appropriate times, allowing exhaust gas to enter the intake system and reduce the oxygen content of the intake air.

A couple of months ago, with about 19,000 km on the odometer, I noticed that :
1) The SVS light was not going off after 4 seconds of turning on the ignition
2) The MIL light was not going off after starting the engine
3) There was no noticeable change in the car's performance

I took the car to Maruti Service where they connected their diagnostic device (called Tech-2) to my car’s ECU and found DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) No. P0400, i.e., problem with EGR flow. According to the Swift workshop manual, DTC No. P0400 is detected if one of the following conditions is satisfied :
1) Difference between measured MAF (mass air flow) and reference MAF is out of specified range
2) EGR valve is stuck open

Maruti Service technician cancelled the DTC with Tech-2 and the warning lights (both SVS and MIL) returned to their normal states without carrying out any repairs to the engine. Thereafter, I used the car for over one month without any problem.

Again, about a month ago, the SVS and MIL lights warned me of some malfunction. Again, there was no noticeable change in the car's performance, i.e., there were no symptoms of any problem except the warning lights. I took the car to Maruti Service and they again found DTC No. P0400, i.e., problem with EGR flow. They correctly diagnosed the root cause of the problem as excessive carbon deposits inside the EGR valve making its operation sluggish / erratic.

The problem was satisfactorily rectified by dismantling and cleaning the EGR valve. The following pictures will give you an idea of the procedure.

View of engine compartment with battery and air filter removed. The EGR vv. assembly (with electronic actuator removed) is seen inside the red rectangle

The EGR valve assembly removed from engine

Note the carbon accumulation inside EGR valve


EGR valve after cleaning


This nozzle injects exhaust gas from EGR vv into intake manifold. Note the carbon deposits.

EGR cooler being cleaned

EGR cooler after cleaning
After the EGR valve cleaning I drove the car from Jamshedpur to Delhi and back (about 3000 km; doing speeds upto 130 kmph) and there were no warning indications.
My personal impression after examining the EGR valve after dismantling was that there were substantial carbon deposits but they could not be called excessive -- the gas passage through the valve was not blocked (I ascertained it by blowing thro' the valve with my mouth). Also, I could operate (open / close) the valve by pushing it with my fingers -- it was not jammed (but could be a bit sluggish under actual working conditions). It must be said to the credit of the Multijet engine that its sensors and on-board computer are sensitive enough to detect problems well before they start hampering the car's performance.

139 comments:

valve replacement said...

Complex control systems using valves requires an automatic control based input of an actuator. The actuator strokes the valve allowing the valve to be positioned accurately and allowing control over a variety of requirements.

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Anonymous said...

Debashisda. Where do you fill your diesel in Jamshedpur ? It has a high chance of aulteration since there are no COCO here and the owners always mix kerosene.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

At Jamshedpur, I always buy diesel from M/s Quality Petroleum at Circuit House Area.

DrParesh P.Mehta said...

I just had similar problem at 33ooo km in my swiftvdi.The service centre asked me to get the valve repaced costing 6500/-.I have been told there is another problem of oil body assembly valve not functioning properly causing coolant and engine oil getting mixed up.Could that be the root cause for egr valve not funtioning properly.In advance I thank you for such a detail write up and congratulate on the wonderful blog on swift vdi.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Dr. Mehta,

1) I'm not able to understand the need for replacement of the EGR valve from your brief comments. Normally, cleaning of the valve should rectify the problem. I hope you have collected the old EGR valve from the MASS. You may take up this issue with the regional head office of Maruti (service) and seek clarifications in writing if the MASS is unable to satisfy you.

2) The Swift Multijet engine has a small engine oil cooler where hot oil is cooled by the same water+coolant mixture which cools the engine. I would consider it very unlikely that there would be a leak in this cooler leading to mixing of coolant and engine oil. And even if there is a leak, oil will get into coolant and not the other way around as oil pressure is higher than coolant pressure. In any case, contamination of oil / coolant is not the cause of EGR valve malfunction.

3) The main reason for EGR valve problems is excessive carbon deposits inside the valve. Carbon deposits affect the performance of the EGR valve in two ways -- firstly, it causes physical blockage of the exhaust gas flow path through the valve and secondly, it makes the opening / closing of the valve by the electronic actuator sluggish.

DrParesh P.Mehta said...

Dear Debasis Mukherjee,
I want to thank you,because I went to another dealer and just asked them to clean egr valve.It was done today and also got the packing for intercooler changed.They charged 350 labour for the job work.They mentioned that the leak is very minor.Also they gave me impression that oil mixed with coolant will cause engine bearings damage.They cleaned the intercooler,flushed the radiator,and changed the coolant.I like my swift vdi very much.And I owe you a lot because I could talk with solid confidence even without knowing what is wrong with my car.Thanks a lot.I am going to view your blog earnestly.Keep it up.

DrParesh P.Mehta said...

Dear Debasis Mukherjee,
I want to thank you,because I went to another dealer and just asked them to clean egr valve.It was done today and also got the packing for intercooler changed.They charged 350 labour for the job work.They mentioned that the leak is very minor.Also they gave me impression that oil mixed with coolant will cause engine bearings damage.They cleaned the intercooler,flushed the radiator,and changed the coolant.I like my swift vdi very much.And I owe you a lot because I could talk with solid confidence even without knowing what is wrong with my car.Thanks a lot.I am going to view your blog earnestly.Keep it up.

valve actuators said...

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kulvinder said...

At last after days of searching find a bit of usefull information.
I have a '07 Ldi. and at 27000 kms noticed oil in the coolent--- in Pondicherry we had one main Maruti service agent who has promptly gone bust. So no one with any real diagnostic equipment or indeed tools like a Torque wrench.
Of course every body wants to change my head gasket.
Something I'm loathe to do untill every other possibility is ruled out and then I'm going to make sure I do the Head gasket myself--its pretty complicated requires taken the camshafts out (not just off!) although the car is still under extended warranty-- just have no faith in main dealer garages. Wonderif any other DDis owners have experienced this problem generally its known that low mileage engines have this problem with the interface between oil coolers and coolent circuit-- goodto know that in theswift it runs through the EGR matrix Would like to know if other owners have experienced this problem-- also it seems that Fiat had a recall world wide-- except India!!!-- on the "Indian made" 1.3 jtd - wonder if its a common component fault

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Kulvinder,

1) I would not advise you to open the cylinder head yourself because, firstly, your car is under warranty and MSIL must be made to rectify the defect free of cost. Secondly, the job needs several special tools which you may not have.

2) If there aren't any good MASS in Pondicherry, why don't you take your car to a big MASS in Chennai? You can also contact MSIL's regional service honchos in Chennai if the MASS are acting funny. Don't let MSIL get away with a defective product and escape their warranty liability.

3) Earlier, Dr. Mehta had reported on this blog a similar problem of coolant / oil getting mixed up. This is quite worrisome. I must remember to check my coolant once in a while!

4) I phoned up a supervisor in PEBCO (biggest MASS in Jamshedpur)workshop and he told me that he has not come across a single case of coolant / oil mixing up in any Swift.

Hey!jude said...

Dear Mr Mukherjee, lovely article on the EGR system, and great blog too. It would be nice to have you on board here-http://gearheads.in/forced-induction-modifications/torturing-the-ddis-t188.html
If you can spare the time. I dont have your level of tech knowlege, and any assistance you can provide, would much appreciated
Thanks
Louis(rippergeo)

Debashis Mukherjee said...

I had written earlier that in the unlikely (but not impossible) event of a leak in the Multijet engine oil cooler, oil will get into the coolant and not the other way round due to higher pressure of oil.

Well, I studied the problem in greater depth and realised that my earlier statement holds good only when the engine is relatively cold. When the engine is hot, coolant pressure can be high enough for coolant to get into engine oil through a leak in the oil cooler and contaminate engine oil. Needless to say, this could be disastrous for the engine.

Godwin said...

Sir, thank you for this wonderful blog on the Swift VDI. I too own a Swift VDI and have been a very satisified customer. I thorougly enjoyed the article on the EGR valve in Swift VDI.

I noticed that EGR valve cleaning is one of the standard job to be done during the 30,000km service schedule. I am very specific about making sure the job is completed as mentioned in the service manual. How do I confirm if this job (EGR Valve cleaning) was indeed done and also is this similar to Intercooler cleaning?

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Godwin,

Unless you physically watch (at least from a distance) the work being carried out in your car at the MASS, you cannot confirm whether EGR valve cleaning was done or not during 30,000 km service.

Most MASS allow the customers to periodically visit the car when service is in progress. It is always good to have a rapport with the main mechanic or supervisor. One can always request the supervisor to physically show you the EGR valve when it is dismantled.

My 30,000 km service will become due shortly. The supervisor in the local MASS has told me that they will not do EGR valve cleaning during 30,000 km service since it was done at 20,000 km.

I have no experience with intercooler (I presume you are talking about turbo intercooler) cleaning.

zafeer said...

Hi Debashish...I started noticing the svs light and fuel filter warning for a while....i was waiting for for 30K service as it was already 28k....unfortunately couple of days back my car started giving starting problems....i had to crank it many times before it would start...i took it to service center and they told me it is a battery problem and I need to change my battery....I was just wondering if this could be a EGR valve problem as I found on some blog that EGR can give you starting problems...do you think EGR valve problem can give you starting problems??..Please reply at your earliest convenience..

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Hi Zafeer,

1) To the best of my knowledge, the likelihood of EGR valve related defects causing starting problems is remote. Theoretically, an EGR valve which is stuck on the open position can cause starting problems.

2) The fuel filter warning light usually indicates that too much water has accumulated inside the filter. It is very simple to rectify this -- there is a drain plug at the bottom of the fuel filter which can be opened by hand -- one just needs to drain out the water and the light should go off.

3) The SVS light can come on due to several factors. When the light comes on, one should visit a MASS at the earliest opportunity where they will connect a Tech2 scan tool to the car's ECU and find out the error code. Only the error code can reveal where the problem lies.

4) The health of a battery can be checked easily by measuring the specific gravity of each of the 6 cells. If all cells have low sp gr, then it is usually a charging problem. If only one cell has low sp gr, it indicates failure of that cell and the battery may have to be replaced.

5) You have mentioned 4 problems (SVS light, fuel filter light, battery and starting problem)-- these may or may not be related. More than one problem may have occurred almost simultaneously. I would recommend following :

a) Drain fuel filter and see if light goes off.
b) Ask MASS to find error code of SVS light and let me know the code. MASS should also 'cancel' the error code and observe if the SVS light come on again.
c) What are the sp gr readings of battery?

zafeer said...

Hey Debashish,

Appreciate your prompt reply which is really helping me understand the problem.

The service guy did tell me that they checked with the tech2 meter and they did not find any problems. I did not ask them what error code they got. May be I will ask them. He told me that it is the problem with the gravity level of the battery. I will ask him in detail about all the points you mentioned.

However, just to let you know I noticed two things with the starting problem.

a. In the morning I can start the car immediately without turning the ignition On for some time(I guess it is not recommended but I always do that). After that When I turn off the car, it does not start immediately.

b. After turning off the car, when I keep the ignition in On position for some 10+ seconds, the central lock works and locks the car and after that the car often starts immediately without much cranking.

Do you make anything from the above observation in terms of battery. my car has run 28K and is just above 2.5 years old. Do you think the battery life is inching towards its last days?

Thank you very much for your patience hearing and your valuable time to answer to my rather strange queries.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Hi Zafeer,

Don't change the battery immediately. Provide me with inputs as per Para 5 a,b and c of my yesterday's reply. Let me know the specific gravity of all 6 cells.

If the SVS light comes on, there HAS TO BE an error code. Has the light gone off now? Has the fuel filter been drained?

zafeer said...

Hi Debashis,

I went to MAS again and asked them all the questions you asked.

a. They said they have taken care of the fuel filter drain plug and the light still comes on.

b. The guy told me that they are not getting the error code and they notice this due to drop in battery voltage. I am not sure if it is true.

c. The electrician told me it is definitely the battery as they had exact same problems with other cars before. When the battery is down these two lights behave this way due to the battery cell weakening. He says one of the cell in the battery is very weak. He measured the battery voltage and it was about 12.5V. when they tried cranking, it dropped to as low as 7.5V and occasionally reached 9V.

They are guaranteeing that if we replace battery this will be solved for sure and even the SVS and fuel filter warning lights should go off.

Please let me know if this makes sense.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Zafeer,

I wanted to know the specific gravity of each of the 6 cells in the battery -- you haven't provided that information. Any street corner batterywallah can measure that for you free of cost.

I didn't know that warning lights come on without any reason when battery voltage falls. Why don't you do a simple experiment -- replace the battery (borrow a battery for a few minutes from a friend; it need not be the same size, any car battery would do)and see if the lights start working normally.

If the battery is indeed defective (one cell has abnormally low sp gr) there is no alternative to changing it. Do let me know whether warning lights start working normally after replacing battery.

zafeer said...

Dear Debashis,

I will check the specific gravity and also try to check with some other battery and let you know.

Thanks,
Zafeer

zafeer said...

Dear Debashis,

I checked the sp gravity of the cells from two battery shops. The reading shows 1250(I guess it is 1.250) for all 6 cells on both. They inserted a tube and sucked the battery water out and checked the reading. I am not sure how accurate these are.

I did notice couple of things when I tried measuring the battery myself with a digital multimeter.

1. Before starting the car the battery reading was 12.6V which I guess is normal.

2. When I turn the ignition ON, it drops to about 11.5V. When I leave it on ignition ON position for longer time, it slowly starts to increase. When the central locking locks the door and again unlocks it before I start the car, it jumps back to 12.6V. After this, when I start my car, It still drops to about 8V but starts immediately but the svs and fuel filter warning is gone.

3. When I start the car before the voltage stabilizes to 12.5V, the crank voltage is around 7V or worse and the svs & fuel filter light does not go off.

I did not get a chance to check it with another car battery though. I checked the same thing with my friends new Indica Vista. There is the same behavior of voltage dropping by almost 1V after ignition is turned ON but crank voltage is higher than 10V.

Do you think even with good specific gravity numbers, the battery is not able to pump enough current so as to not drop the crank voltage too low? I am not sure why central locking is causing so much voltage drop.

I got the central locking done from a local shop. Do you think this could be a problem?

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Zafeer,

Sp gr readings of 1250 on all 6 cells indicates that the battery should be in good health. Your voltage readings also seem normal to me.

Whenever you switch on the ignition, the first thing that happens is that the electrical fuel pump located inside the fuel tank starts running (you can hear it if you are sitting inside the car with all windows rolled up). After a few seconds, the pump goes off (which explains initial fall and then rise of battery voltage).

One experiment is remaining -- temporary replacement of your battery. Ideally, if you can find a friend with a diesel Swift, you can exchange the batteries and see if your problems are gone and if the other car is facing problems. Alternatively, you can request your neighbourhood batterywallah for help.

BTW, what were the opinions (about your battery) of the two battery shops where you got your sp gr measured?

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Zafeer,

I forgot to comment on your central locking. How long back did you get it installed? Did your problems start soon after installation?

Where are you based? I'm based at Jamshedpur (Jharkhand).

zafeer said...

Hi Debashis,

I would discount the first guy as he was a kid. He initially said it is all fine. Then another kid came by and when I showed him the voltage drop while cranking, he said battery seems to be gone. He checked all the cells again and said one cell is slightly lower but did not show me.

I went to another place. He looked more experienced. When I told him about the problems, he said even with correct sp. gravity it does not mean battery is fine. I told him I checked sp. gravity and it looked fine. He also checked it and said sp. gravity looks good(I also checked with him) but 2.5 years is good enough time to change which I found a strange comment. He said if you start getting starting problems, it has to be battery. He was just judging it based on experience of battery for diesel cars.

Irony is there is no stock of batteries at this moment because of some strike at EXIDE. Amaron also is not readily available. One Reliance auto showroom told me they can get it in 5 days. I have just asked them to procure it. Meanwhile I will try all options. I will take it to MASS again and ask them to check sp gravity as they have never checked it before me.

Bottom line is I am not sure how much these batterywalahs know about health of a battery.

I guess there has to be some kind of load test to see if there is enough current pumped out by battery during cranking.

I guess I will ask MASS to see if there is any other car from which I can check the battery as unfortunately I dont know any one here in HYD with the same car.

zafeer said...

Hi Debashis,

Sorry I did not notice your latest comment. I got the central locking done about 1.5 years back. I did not notice any problems until now.

Regarding the battery shops, I thought I posted a message in the morning but not sure why it is not sent.

The first battery guy was a kid and he checked and said it was fine. Then another kid came and I showed him the starting trouble and crank voltage drop. He checked and said one cells seems like it is weak but did not show me clearly. I went to another shop where this man seemed a bit experienced. He said from his experience it should be battery though the sp. gravity looks good. He measured it as well and showed me that it is 1250(each cell) but concluded that 2.5 years is good enough for a diesel car battery :-).

I am based in Hyderabad. Irony is that here there is a shortage of batteries. EXIDE is on strike it seems and no stock for at least next 15 days. I got same response from MASS and couple other dealers. Reliance auto promised to get Amaron within 5 days. It is about 9500/- MRP and he can give some discount.

Till then I will try to debug this further with some other battery. Unfortunately I dont have a friend in Hyd with swift Diesel. Maybe I will got MASS and ask them if they can do it. In MASS the electrician did not even check the gravity. He just put the multimeter lead inside one of the slot and said that cell seems to be weak. I guess he is just going by experience and trying to convince me that battery is indeed the problem.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Zafeer,

Any decent batterywallah is supposed to have a load testing instrument which is inexpensive and usually provided by battery makers like Exide free of cost to their dealers. This instrument positively determines the battery's health by drawing high current.

I'm sure you'll find a dealer in your city to load test your battery.

My car batteries usually last 4-5 years. I personally ensure correct electrolyte level by topping up with dist water and I never leave headlights on unnecessarily.

zafeer said...

Hi Debashis,

I would liket o update you regarding the battery problem with my Swift Diesel. Finally I have changed my battery couple of days back after a long research. Thanks to your inputs which made things much easier and convincing. I finally got a battery from Amaron in my city(Hyderabad). There was a severe chortage of this battery due to the exide strike.

After changing the battery, both svs and fuel filter warning lights have gone and the cranking is pretty good. I guess it was indeed the battery.

Thank you very much for your help. Please let me know if you have any questions about my experience.

zafeer said...

Hi Debashis,

I would liket o update you regarding the battery problem with my Swift Diesel. Finally I have changed my battery couple of days back after a long research. Thanks to your inputs which made things much easier and convincing. I finally got a battery from Amaron in my city(Hyderabad). There was a severe chortage of this battery due to the exide strike.

After changing the battery, both svs and fuel filter warning lights have gone and the cranking is pretty good. I guess it was indeed the battery.

Thank you very much for your help. Please let me know if you have any questions about my experience.

Network Intro said...

Hi Debashis,

It was very impressive reading your document, and I have read all your trip adventure you've written. It was so interesting.

I too own a Swift VDi in Bangalore and used to give it for service in my native place in ERODE, Tamilnadu.

Recently when I left the car for service on 15,700 kms, the service center guy informed me that the EGR hose valve has to be cleaned and it costs around 2,000/- and it takes a day to complete the work. Does it cost that much money ?

Could you please give me your suggentions on this

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Hi Network Intro,

Before clocking 30,000 km, the EGR valve needs to be cleaned ONLY if there is any actual defect indicated by one or more warning lights coming on. Is that the case in your car? Otherwise, this cleaning needs to be done after 30,000 km.

To the best of my knowledge, the charges for this work in Jamshedpur (MASS) are around Rs 700 (labour). Usually, no parts are required to be replaced.

DrParesh said...

Hello DM
I have been following your blog dedicatedly.
I would like to give the follow up of the service at 40000 Kms.
On examining the coolant container there was definitely oil in the same.At 32000kms I had the coolant changed, flushed the radiatior and also changed the packing of oil body assembly along with Engine oil/filter changed.
Presently at 40000 kms the same problem of oil coming in to coolant compartment happened.On MASS insistence I replaced the Oil body assembly costing 4700 net,Labour of 2500,got all the other things mentioned above again alltogether costing me 14200,today itself.
MASS informed that they had done the same with 3 more cars.I did not have extended warranty.It definitely seems like the oil body assembly is defective which starts acting at 25000-30000kms.We need proper data from Many Swift VDi/ldi owners.Again for information I bought in May 07.Thank you for everything on this blog.DrParesh P.Mehta

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Dr. Paresh,

This problem of engine oil getting into coolant is quite a serious one. Furthermore, such a problem arising after mere 30,000 km running is simply not acceptable from a modern car.

I would like to take up this matter with Maruti officials. Please let me know more details of the part replaced because I am unable to understand the exact location and function of 'Oil Body Assembly'. Is it the oil cooler? Please send me your phone number or email ID so that I can discuss this issue with you in detail.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Kulvinder had written earlier about the problem of oil in coolant. He was planning to change his cylinder head gasket. But since he did not share the actual repair details and findings, we could not get the benefit of his experience.

xevilxknievilx said...

Hi,

Finally someone who knows well about the DDiS. I have searched the web for quite some time to get to someone like u DM ..... I hope u can help me with my problem.

A few days ago, my Service Required Light ( the car with the spanner on it) started coming on even after 4 seconds since ignition is turned on, usually it goes off by then. Then slowly it started coming on even after the car is started. So I turn off the car and start it again and it goes off. This was happening for a week and coz of job and lack of tym, I was postponing my trip to MASS. 2 days ago, that stopped and the other light which is next to the fuel guage came on and remains on even when the car is ON. Yesterday my worst fears came true when the turbo stopped working. Even at 4K rpm, there was absolutely no kick from the turbo and the car ran very flat. I could feel it. Then while driving, I turned off the car and re started it and I could feel the turbo working but the performace was definitely not like before. The light was still ON. I have a tuning box connected to the ECU and I am planning to take it to MASS with the tuning box connected as it is. I checked the box and it seems fine. Its well covered so it doesnt get wet and the light on the box suggests it is working fine ( it has its own Diag codes and LED ).

So now when I take it to MASS, what am I looking at ?? Is this gonna be an expensive repair ?? Will the stupid MASS ppl ask me to replace some part which is not needed ? Is my turbo or EGR damaged ??? Whats the worst case scenario ??? pls help

kuvinder singh said...

Dear All,

Apologies I hadn't posted info earlier.
I did open the engine up and found no defects with cylinder head

There is a confusion between Oil Cooler and Oil Body. This is because the Oil-cooler is bolted directly to the Oil Body. Maruti don't supply the two units seperately-So Maruti refers to the entire assembly as Oil-Body.

The oil cooler is bolted to the oil body which is bolted to the Engine Block. The oil filler- Black Tube with Yellow cap is also part of this unit.

Having opened this unit up I found quite a bit of corrosion at both the mating surfaces. I.e Oil Body to engine and Oil Cooler to Oil Body.I also cut the oil cooler in half- Molded unit, can't be opened- and also found corrosion.

The assembly works thus:
On the Engine Block there are four holes adjacent to each other. Two for oil to circulate two for coolent to circulate.
Both- Oil and coolent- go through the Oil Body into the Oil Cooler where they are kept seperate by a number of very thin( 0.25mm) plates. The Coolent water thus takes away the heat from the oil. Both then return to the engine through a further two holes.

On the mating surfaces of the units are Rubber O Rings ( or packings-- washers etc as they are often called.)These are the only things to keep the Oil and Coolent Water seperate.

The problem:

clearly even the slightest amount of CORROSION around the O Rings, or indeed between the plates in the oil- cooler, will compromise their sealing abilities- thus allowing oil and coolent to mix.

The corrosion may actually only be a minute pin prick- visible by microscope only-- but when the oil is Hot and Pressurised that pin prick expands like a balloon and becomes a hole-- allowing the oil out and into the coolent.

The entire unit ( Oil/ Cooler Body) is made from a derivative of a metal that we Sometimes refer to as "Pot Metal"-- or "Monkey metal" ( a form of Die cast Zinc)-- this metal is great for its heat/expansion/lightness and Rigidity-- it is also very cheap to produce and mould.

But it is also very very prone to corrosion.
The corrosion appears in the form of pitting.

Questions:

1. Why is this happening in India and not Europe Where the same identical engine is sold.??

Incidentally this Oil Body/ Cooler assembly is a imported Item-- it is made by MOPAR in Italy--so it is exactly the same as on the Engines abroad.

2.Why has this happened to some cars and not all in India

ANSWER to both Questions is: COOLENT WATER.

The Mass Service agents in some localities- I suspect- have been filling coolent which does not contain properly de-mineralised and distilled Water.

In Europe this would be a Criminal Matter (fraud)and would easily be found out leading to massive damages as well as imprisonment of the perpetrator.

Hope the above helps--

Incidentally-- in answer to the gentleman who's turbocharger has stopped working the only possibilities with them are:

1. A hose is leaking or has come off- on the DDIS the main hose from turbo to air inlet is held by a very flimsy and cheap screw clip- check that firs't.

Check the entire air circuit- air filter box etc..

2. The dump valve is stuck, and is thus dumping the charge air to atmosphere-- this could be because of excessive carbon build-up in the Intake manifold-- so if you are cleaning the EGR make sure to clean that as well.

It could also be that the Tuning chip you instaled is sending a defective message to the ECU forcing the Dump Valve to Dump the charge air

3. The turbocharger bearings or impellor are damaged--- If this is the case you will be able to hear them rattling, take a long screwdriver touch one end to the turbo casing the other to your ear and listen for any rattly/grating type noises.-- Turbo's can be repaired-- cheaply- they are very simple mechanisms, if the parts are available here in India.

Hope this helps

kuvinder singh said...

In answer to the gentleman who's turbocharger has stopped working the only possibilities with them are:

1. A hose is leaking or has come off- on the DDIS the main hose from turbo to air inlet is held by a very flimsy and cheap screw clip- check that firs't.

Check the entire air circuit- air filter box etc..

2. The dump valve is stuck, and is thus dumping the charge air to atmosphere-- this could be because of excessive carbon build-up in the Intake manifold-- so if you are cleaning the EGR make sure to clean that as well.

It could also be that the Tuning chip you instaled is sending a defective message to the ECU forcing the Dump Valve to Dump the charge air

3. The turbocharger bearings or impellor are damaged--- If this is the case you will be able to hear them rattling, take a long screwdriver touch one end to the turbo casing the other to your ear and listen for any rattly/grating type noises.-- Turbo's can be repaired-- cheaply- they are very simple mechanisms, if the parts are available here in India.

Note: The only way to ensure that the turbo remains reliable is ensuring regular engine oil changes and most most crucially let the engine idle for at least 15 seconds before switching it off-- every time.
Hope this helps

kuvinder singh said...

In retrospect- regarding the turbocharger problem.

I have a suspicion that nothing is fundamentally wrong with the engine.

I'm not sure about cars in India- but the same cars (exported abroad) have what is often called a " Limp Home Mode" within the ECU programme-

If the sensors detect that something is wrong or If the service (oil change etc..) has been inordinately delayed then the entire engine mapping will go into "Limp Mode" i.e. The max revs will be cut down, fuel air timing will be changed, the Charge air will be dumped etc.. so that the Engine will drop its power output drastically.

The engine will keep on running but only enough to "Limp Home" and get serviced. After which the ECU is reset and the engine mapping returns to normal.

So first things first-- get your routine service done!!

Suspect this is what has happened to the gentlemans car

kulvinder said...

Apologies for my very long posts on your blog DM.

In the last few days I've being doing further research on this OIL Cooler problem on some of the DDIS's.

Some Corrections:
The Oil Body is infact made by FGP, along with the Oil Filter etc..

The Oil Cooler is made by Modine (not Mopar as earlier stated)

I've located two people in Europe who have had the same problem, vis Oil Body/ cooler failure: on Fiat Doblo's.

On Modine's site there is a hint at Oil cooler failure: http://www.modine.com/v2portal/page/portal/modine/modineTechnologyDefault/modine_com/technology/level_2_content_012.htm

Look at the firs't diagram and in brackets it says "(failure location of current design)"

This confirms what I discovered upon cutting the unit in half.

My real suspicion is that the Oil Body is not at fault, and if it is also at fault then the most it can be is corrosion around the seals- which can easily be repaired (good metal paste would do it) and reinforced with a high temp gasket sealent.

The real issue here is the fact that maruti won't sell the Oil- Cooler seperately.

In Europe it is and costs equivalent Rupees 900/-- only.
Here we have to buy the entire two units together with an oil filter: costing Approx Rs. 5000/-

And secondly, clearly since Modine have understood the defect, and have rectified the design, Maruti should do a recall and have the new improved unit fitted at their own cost.

There are still a lot of questions to this issue.

eg. Is it the case that only Maruti are being supplied the old (defective) design?

If so who is actually Liable- Modine or Maruti ?

If it is Modine- then why hasn't Maruti chased them.

After all from what I can Gather it is not only Dr. Paresh and My car's that are affected- I've had this confirmed by more than one Mass mechanic.

Rgds.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Thanks, Kulvinder for the valuable inputs. This seems to be a serious problem which might merit a recall. Dr. Mehta had sent me the details of his bill and I found that Maruti charged him quite a lot for replacing his 'oil body'unit.

On the personal front I've been a bit tied up and presently travelling abroad. I hope to take up the matter with Maruti upon my return after a month.

Meanwhile, any of you guys know some senior folks in Maruti Udyog(Technical)? Try e-mailing details of this problem to them.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear xevilxknievilx,

Would like to know exactly what defects were found (regarding your turbo not working problem) and how they were rectified.

Jaykumar said...

Dear Sir..

I purchased my Swift VDI in May 2010 from Seva Automobile Dhule. I already drove it around 18000km. I am facing a problem like engine noise increased and very low knocking sound occurs when i start AC. I use to do regular servicing at authorized service stations only. In last servicing i told about this problem to my dealer but all electronic system working well and not showing any malfunction so they told me your car is OK. But me feeling increased in engine noise and knocking sound after AC put on. Please, suggest me, if anybody gone through such problem in his/her car and why this problem occurs? Is it the problem of EGR valve?

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Jaykumar,

1) From the symptoms mentioned by you, it does not seem to be a EGR valve problem.

2) In addition to increased engine noise are there any other problems like lack of power / pick-up or increased fuel consumption? If there are no such problems continue using the car keeping a close watch on its behaviour.

3) Your car is under warranty and so MSIL are fully responsible for rectifying any defect. If MASS are confirming that all parameters are okay, I don't think you need to worry much about your car.

Jaykumar said...

Dear Sir,

1st up all thank you for replying to my problem. Two problems you stated in reply that are; 1) lac of power and 2)increase in fuel consumption. After reading your reply i observed my vehicle and exactly both problems found in my car. My car not delivering high performance and only 16km/lit average. Please, reply me why this problems occurs in my car?. I think after your suggestions, i will go to Service station so i can discuss with mechanic about exact problem... plz reply.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Jaykumar,

16 KMPL is quite satisfactory, assuming your driving is mostly inside city.

I would recommend that you should take your car for a long drive on a highway. Try to do speeds over 100 kmph (at least in short bursts) and look for any sluggishness in the engine response. The Swift is capable of crossing 160 kmph.

Let me know your experience after the long drive. In case you are not comfortable with driving at high speeds, take a good driver with you.

hangar18 said...

gerThank You for the information. I had given the car for a service and had paid 1200 for a engine decarb. I assume they must've done this but within two months I'm getting the issue. Time to kick some butt!

hangar18 said...

Hi,
Just another update on my diesel. I went to the showroom and though they didnt check the EGR, but they said the issue was with the battery and that it needs to be replaced. That costs like 10K !!! I took it both the showrooms and they both said the same thing. BUt the symptoms are similar to the ones that you have mentioned. A little confused as to what to do here.

xevilxknievilx said...

Hi all,

Sorry DM and Kulvinder for the late response. I had visited the blog a few times after my post to check for a response but didnt see any. Later I lost track.

Well, here is what happened when I took it to MASS for the issue.


Mass checked the ECU with Tech 2 and came up with diagonostic message that there was excessive rail pressure.
Then they cencelled the warning lights and told me its all fine and it probably is because of the Tuning Box.
I drove around after that and everything was fine.
Recently the MIL light came on while running but it happened late at night so i figured ill take it to MASS next day.
The next day there was no warning when i turned the car ON. Took it to MASS and they didnt find any error.

So i figured the issue might be with Tuning Box. So removed it and drove around 2000kms without it.
After around 400kms, I again got MIL light. So I stopped the car on the side and restarted the car, again light gone.
Took it to MASS, again no errors.

My 30K kms svc is coming up. So I have decided to tell MASS whatever was told by Kulvinder.

1. Clean EGR and Intake Manifold.

2. Check turbo for noise. ( I havent done the screw driver check just yet. But will do it after work today and post the result here.

3. Will check hose too for leakage tonight. As such, I havent heard any noise from engine apart from ordinary.


One thing thats worth noticing is that the performace has not dropped during anytime after the 1st visit to MASS although the lights do come on now n then. I am as confused as the car. So I am hoping the 30K svc will fix the issues. In between I did 2 trips ... each around 800kms ..... and there were no issues. Car ran smooth and the warning lights never came on. On some days I find the car coughing to start from cold start. But it does start up although the starting is not as smooth. Its like the car is thinking whether or not to start.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Thanks, xevilxknievilx, for the update. Could you share some more information about your tuning box, such as :
a) what kind of effect it has on your engine performance and is it at the cost of fuel efficiency
b) make and price of your tuning box
c) did MASS tell you that installation of tuning box would void your warranty

It appears that your tuning box is maintaining common rail pressure at a higher level to coax more performance out of your engine.

xevilxknievilx said...

!me47nsvHi DM,

Once again pls forgive me for the long post. Here you go ......


a) what kind of effect it has on your engine performance and is it at the cost of fuel efficiency

It has increased the pickup and top speed.Mileage isnt affected much. For my driving, I do get around 14 in city and 16 on highways. That could also be because I run 205/55/R15 88W Yokohama S Drives which are soft component tyres.I dont know. I am just guessing.

b) Make and Price of your tuning box ?

Make : Italian Tuning Box
Cost - 13K INR

c) Did MASS tell you that installation of tuning box would void your warranty

MASS that I take my car to, those guys hardly know what tuning box means. I had to explain it to them. Then they asked me if its a permanent fix like a remap. I said no. Then they didnt say anything. Only told me to remove it and drive around and see if it still happens.

It appears that your tuning box is maintaining common rail pressure at a higher level to coax more performance out of your engine.

Yes, I am not sure but from whatever research I had done on Tuning Boxes before I bought one I had found that usually all tuning boxes available including Pete's also uses higher rail pressure to enhance performance and torque. Thats why it gives black smoke if it is kept at max power settings. Only piggyback units like Racedynamics increase the fuel input timing for same rail pressure and so they give less smoke. Remap is the best option if done by someone who knows what he is doing.

I did check for Turbo rattlings. The idea with screwdriver was amazing. I didnt find any noise though.
Also checked leakage, didnt find any. So assuming it is with EGR and/or Intake Manifold. Hopefully will get rectified in the routine service.

knowmenot said...

hi DM itz great reading your article and the way of presentation is really appreciating. i am a layman in automobile technology, however i have a request seeking your expertise, i have bought a swift vdi and it is running into problems and sending me jitters while driving lately. the problem is while the car is running engine is getting switched off and it is troubling to start. the vehicle ran 16000 kms and is 15 month old. went on a long trip to bangalore from hyderabad and while returning the vehicle stopped on its own enroute but after some time it started working normal, later in the city also the engine is getting switched off while running leading into stranding on busy roads, took to maruti service station they told fuel pump is gone and would replace it, after two months again the same problem cropped and now they say it is ECU and it has to be replaced, now they have replaced that also but still the ignition is not that smooth and the engine is starting only after long cranking, sir what do you advise me? what is this ECU? whether replacing it would stop further inconvenience or problems tend to persist even after replacement, please advise what to do, i have not written to maruti till now, coordinating with the local service centre to get the problem fixed but i don't know how far that would be successfull, please advise : vsr.murthy, secunderabad

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear knowmenot,

ECU is the electronic control unit or the on-board computer which controls every aspect of the engine. It receives inputs from a large number of sensors in the car and its output is mainly in the form of electronic signals to the 4 fuel injectors.

The symptoms that you have mentioned can be caused by several reasons. Since your car is under warranty and any defect will be rectified free of cost by MSIL, you should allow the MASS to replace the ECU or any other part which they find defective.

You should also write to the regional service manager of MSIL explaining the problems in your car and the long time your MASS is taking to correctly diagnose and rectify them.

Do share your subsequent experiences regarding your Swift VDi on this forum.

Stephen Caleb said...

I own a suzuki swift Vdi ABS 2009 model. Have clocked 13500 km on it. Have problem with SVS light glowing on even after 5 seconds and disappearing after vehicle starts. Shown it to Maruti showroom 3-4 times. Code error P1612 and P1613 related to immobilizer. Today they checked the Fuse near battery, removed battery terminals and cleaned it, removed error code using immobilizer cable.... hope this solves the problem ... pls do give your expert opinion in case the problem recurrs..

Ps problem generally recurs when vehicle stalls when switching the igtnition

Vehicle is totally services at Maruti showroom in time, I mostly drive in city not exceeding 60 kmph.

Thanks
Adv. Stephen Nagpur

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Stephen Caleb,

DTC code P1612 pertains to "No signal from immobilizer control module" and P1613 pertains to "Immobilizer system malfunction". It is therefore obvious that there is some problem with your immobilizer system.

Since your car is under warranty, MSIL have to diagnose and rectify the problem free of cost. Rectification of the problem may involve replacement of the immobilization control module and / or your car keys.

My primary advice to you is to continue referring the defect to your MASS till they correctly diagnose and rectify the defect free of cost. One secondary advice I'd like to give you is to switch to your spare key (your car comes with 2 keys -- usually you use only one and keep the other as spare). The Swift VDi key has a built-in electronic circuit which communicates with the immobilizer system. By using your spare key you will at least be able to rule out any defect with the key itself.

Do keep me informed about the final diagnosis and solution to your problem.

Stephen Caleb said...

Thanks a lot Debashis,

will do as per ur advice. Keep up the good work, its a great relief to have an expert solving oor problems which even the company workshop fails to rectify.

Will keep u updated.

By the way doy you know any site from where the service manuals for the swift may be downlaoded.

Thanks once again

Steve

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Steve,

I have searched a lot on the internet for the service (workshop) manual of the Multijet engine, but in vain. I wanted to buy the Swift workshop manual from Maruti but couldn't get it. BTW, I purchased the workshop manuals for my earlier Marutis (M-800 and Esteem) from MASS without any difficulty.

Finally, I borrowed the manual from a local MASS and photocopied some sections. Anyway, modern cars being entirely computer-controlled, there is not much scope for DIY. The workshop manual merely provides information to me which sometimes comes handy in diagnosing and rectifying a problem more quickly with the help of MASS. Without expensive gizmos like Tech2 I cannot do much by myself.

The User Manual (which is provided along with the car) is freely downloadable from the Maruti website.

Stephen Caleb said...

Dear Debashis,

Thanks again. I started using the second key and intermittently using the other key as well, however the problem has not resurfaced uptil now.

Guess the MASS did their part quite well, but only after discussing the problems with the service engineer at your expert advice.

Being tech savy has its advantages, a laymen often is unaware of the real problem and the mechanics try to take a shortcut (like just deleting the error code manually several time) and do not resort to the service manual for rectifying the actual fault.

I dont blame the mechanics as at MASS the immobilizer cable was under lock and key, only at my persistence they took it out and as per your advioe the problem was rectified properly.

Thanks once again and keep up the good work.

I am now an avid regular visitor of your blog and learning a lot from your various discussions.

It would be interesting if you could come up with some small geneeral tips for keeping the vehicle and various components in its prime condition.

Regards
Steve
The service manual is quite voluminous as such the same may not be available on the net, however I do refer it at the MASS

Stephen Caleb said...

Hi Debasish

Today in the morning my vehicle once again stalled and the error code has again reappeared. I am Using the new keys as u advised. Have called the MASS guys will let u know the details of the error code.

Regards
Steve

Stephen Caleb said...

Hi Debashish

Can u pls forward this problem to the Maruti company or send me the details to whom this problem should be forwarded to so as to go to the root of the problem

regards
Steve

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Steve,

The best way to resolve service issues with MSIL is by taking them up with the concerned Territory Service Manager (reports to the Regional Service Mgr, who in turn reports to the Zonal Service Mgr). The contact numbers as well as email ID’s of the concerned TSM, RSM and ZSM are usually prominently displayed at all MASS.

I suggest you explain your difficulties by email to your TSM, marking copies to RSM and ZSM. You may also mark copies to contact@maruti.co.in and Pankaj.Narula@maruti.co.in (he used to be the Chief General Mgr – Service, I am not sure whether he still holds that position).

The MSIL website does not provide the contact particulars of their key personnel. However, it gives the phone / fax numbers of all their regional offices.

TSM, RSM and ZSM get paid to resolve consumer grievances and all Maruti owners should always write (email, fax or letter) to them whenever a MASS is unhelpful or incompetent.

Stephen Caleb said...

Dear Deabashish

Today they checked and found same error codes. They removed the battery and sent the same for checking say probably proper current not available at startup for immobilizer.

Got a spare battery from them... lets see what happens...
Regards
Steve

Manu said...

Hello Debashish,
Your blog is really a source of important information as well as of critical guidance.

My problem similar to the problem under discussion.

The problem started as:

On 9th of march, I was about to reach an important meeting using my SWIFT VDI ( Owned on 5th Feb 2010) with odometer reading = 34000, on the way I got an important call from my senior and for obvious reason I stopped car and attended the call.
As call ended, I ignited & tried to start the car but it didnt'.
I tried 6-7 times but in vain. Then I took help of another taxi driver, he indicated my fuel reading which was 2 mark up from empty line.

And said that the prob is with fuel due to impurities.

But after several tries car started,

I again started my journey, to my surprise it again stopped after 700 mtrs. I contacted MASS, they asked me try start & drive it straight to MASS. after couples of tries i was succesful to start it.
I went to nearby fuel station And fueled my car to full tank.
Again to my surprise the car was doing normal in whole trip of 30 kms to MASS.

I told whole story to MASS guy, he told me that it was bcoz of nearly empty fuel tank.

Again on today (13th) I started facing certain abnormalities with car ( WITH FUEL READING MORE THEN HALF).

Since morning I am able to start my car only after 4-5 tries. for same reason I visited MASS stations, they told me that they cleaned the fuel filter & car would now work normally.

But after I reached at home, I took my car to gym & it is still giving same problem.

I am bit worried.
Followings are current observations:

1) After ignition the YELLOW SVS light (indicator for car service) doesnt go off even after 10-15 seconds
2) Yellow SVS light remains till car starts
3) After ignition, If i open bonat, I can hear a diminished, very low beep sound on left side some where around alternator.
4) After Car starts, i do not observe any such observable change in performance.
5) Today the problem is persisting every time i am trying start up.


Your expert advice is needed.

Kindly help.


Regards
Manoj Kumar
Shimla
9816090830

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Manu,

Please take your car to MASS -- they must find the Error Code (DTC) that is causing the SVS light not going off. Only after that the problem can be diagnosed.

Stephen Caleb said...

Dear Deabashish

Have not had any problems since the change in battery. Guess the root problem was the battery not supplying proper current to the immobilizer resulting in the evs light problem and stalling engine

Thanks for ur help

Regards
Steve

Manu said...

Hello Debashish !!

Car was taken to nearest better MASS.

A thorough check up was done BUT with no final solution at all.

In order to check SVS light problem, two test drives were taken and thus error recorded on ICS were analysed through SDT.

1st Test drive analysis:- error recorded was P1613- which was i some relation to Immobilizer. They checked for same but no such prob found at all.

2nd test drive analysis:- error recorded was P1191, which was related to fuel pressure.

Other observations were as :
-Car fuel was half tank
-Car fuel pump cycle during ignition was like SOME BLOWING AIR IN FUEL TANK
-SVS lights doesnt go off prier to start and even after start it used to suddenly appear making CAR STOP all of a sudden.
-Start up needed 4-5 cranks to start.


As they couldn't find any solid reason for this, so they contacted their TSM (state head)
TSM educated to fuel the car to full tank and then note the observations.

We took the car to fuel it full tank and repeated same procedures.

The observations were surprising:-

- The SVS light started behaving Normal
-The NOICE in fuel tank was gone
- there was no need for more cranks to start, just single was enough


Tech guys suggested me to check the car for overnight and get the fuel tank cleaned.


I am bit relaxed but following qns running in my mind :-

-It took Rs 1000 diesel to fuel the tank full even when the tank was already half full. Usually I used to fuel my car to full tank for Rs 1300 when the fuel needle is near to empty line. So is there anything wrong with fuel meter reading.

-Is there any issue with fuel tank quality
- or prob is with impurities deposit in fuel tank?
- Or is there anything serious with fuel pump?


Again YOUR EXPERT ADVISE needed.


Kindly guide.

Regards
Manoj Kumar

VITALIJ said...

Hi Debashish.i m from lithuania.i have suzuki swift 2006 ddis,i have problem with power stearing.when i turn to the left-no problem,when i turn to the right it is veary +20% difficult.how do you think,that can be with my power steering.?car driven 75000km.THANK YOU. VITALIJ

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Manu,

I'm foxed by your car's symptoms and can't offer any advice except that you should keep a close watch on the performance of your car and the warning lights.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Vitalij,

Please have your power steering system checked -- it seems to be malfunctioning.

Stephen Caleb said...

Dear Debashish

can u suggest some way of sound insualting the rattling noise on rough roads. Swift I believe does noy have proper sound insulation as I coul see the difference when sitting in a Vista quadrajetm which has practically no noise.

Regards
Stephen caleb

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Stephen,

Please maintain correct tyre pressure. Use of a thicker floor mat or carpet also helps.

bir bagga said...

Dear Debasis
Need you advise as i dont know what to do.I have a Swift vdi08 done 67000kms. So far there s been no problem and i have maintained it well. A week before steering suddenly started feeling very heavy almost like a normal steering and not power steering.Took it to MASS and they advised and did strut greasing.
however there is no change and the steering feels heavy still specially at slow speeds.There is no faulty indication of EPS light and it goes off normally after engine start.Tyres are in good condition.What can be the cause and what do you suggest.Can it be due some sensors which controls EPS?What sould i tell MASS as im sure they will try to make money by suggesting complete unit change or so.Please help.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Bir Bagga,

From the symptoms, I can't think of anything other than EPS failure / malfunction. It is possible that EPS may malfunction but the EPS light may not come on. You need to take the car back to MASS and let them run a diagnostic check on the EPS system.

If the MASS insists that EPS is okay, do take up the matter with the Regional Service Manager of MSIL. His phone numbers and email ID are supposed to be displayed by MASS.

Do keep us posted.

Ranjeet said...

Hi Debashish,

I have SWIFT VDI 2007. It has around 57,700 KMs on it. Till last month there were no problems in car since begining.
Starting last month , on first and second gear ,car is not getting pick up and sort of engine stalls.

Once it takes pick up, on 4 and
5th gear ,it runs fine. I showed it MASS and they had run some tests at their end on the same. They are saying that ECU needs to be replaced.

I had 3 yers warranty and it expied already so I will have to bear the cost. Is it common problem ? Can you suggest me if I shall write Maruti about this as MASS is saying that it will cost around 18,000 rs to fit the new EUC.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Ranjeet.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Ranjeet,

The problem that you describe does appear uncommon / unusual. The first thing I'd advise is take your car for a 40-50 km drive on a highway and see how it performs at higher speeds (around 120 kmph).

The MASS must be able to convince you how they have arrived at their diagnosis (defective ECU). If they appear shaky or dodgy, take up the matter with the concerned Territory Service Manager (reports to the Regional Service Mgr, who in turn reports to the Zonal Service Mgr). The contact numbers as well as email ID’s of the concerned TSM, RSM and ZSM are usually prominently displayed at all MASS.

Ranjeet said...

Dear Debashish,

Thanks for you prompt resposne.
At speed of 100/120 KM/hr ,car performs well , doesn't seem to be a problem once it gets momentum at high speeds.

Problem occurs at lower speed and 1st and 2nd gear.

Initially we showed the car to Chougule at Satara and they did all checks there and said that there may be problems with fuel injectors and asked us to go to Chougule at Pune.

You gave me good point about asking details on checks done by MASS and how do they arrived at conclusion of fault ECU. My car is with Chougule at Pune. I generally don;t have good opinion of MASS @ Chougule.

One bigger problem is I am in USA at the moment so won;t be able to meet them face to face. One of my relative is dealing with them for the same.

I will keep you posted about their findings.

Thanks,
Ranjeet.

Doonitesam said...

Dear Debashis Da,
I have a Maruti Suzuki Swift LXi, 2005 model. I often see that the EPS light comes on and the handle feels very heavy despite it being power steering.I had taken it to a known mechanic and he changed a smal MCB kinda thing from under the hood stating that would solve the issue.It did for a week but now the light is back up.Any suggestions on it.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Doonitesam,

It is obviously a power steering problem. Please take your car to a MASS for proper diagnosis and rectification.

Amol Mane said...

Hi

I own Dzire VDi 28000 Km old.

From last 3000 Km I am getting problme of lack of low end torque. I checked the car on Tech-2

But there are no any ECU error.

Nishan Thankappan said...

Dear Debashish Mukherjee,
I would shadow what a few of the guest have mentioned in their comments, after a while of search I have sound some very insightful & meaningful perspectives on the engine. A terrific blog.
I have a similar complain, I own a Ritz VDi / 09 Model, run 27,500 KM & the SVS light does not go off before cranking the engine up & MIL light remains on post the engine is cranked up. Post check, I’m advised that it is an issue with the EGR (as advised by the service guy post check with device Tech-2). There is another warning light (a steering with and exclamatory mark on it) which remains on but goes off once the engine is cranked up.
The background is, my car had a frontal damage to caused due to an accident as a result of a pile up. The front portion including (Bumper, Bonnet, AC condenser, Radiator, Intercooler) had to be replaced. This was done at the Carnation outlet in Noida.
However on taking the delivery I noticed that the warning lights refused to go off, post which the diagnostic was done and am told that it is an issue with EGR. Now I am advised by these folks to take it to the a Maruti authorised service centre and get it checked as they would have more specialised technicians & expertise to deal with Maruti vehicles specifically & if found faulty they would replace the EGR under warranty (mine is currently out of warranty).
Need your suggestion on,
1. Should I go back to carnation and ask them to clean the EGR valves and see if the problem exists? Or go to a MASS and get a check done (in that case would have to pick up the labour cost)
2. Can there be damage to the EGR due to an impact, though the Engine is running absolutely fine. However I have noticed it now idles at around a 800 RPM as compared to 1000 pre accident.
3. The warning sign (a steering with and exclamatory mark on it), is it something I need to worry about and has that got to do with the power steering of the car?
Would be of great help and guidance if you along with the other guest to share thoughts.

Cheers!

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Nishan,

1) I am surprised to know that your 2009 model car is out of warranty. Did you not take the additional 2-year warranty (which is available at a nominal cost) at the time of buying the car?

2) It seems unlikely to me that your EGR valve problem is linked in any way to the accident.

3) I would recommend that you get your EGR valve cleaned before attempting anything else.

4) Idling RPM is controlled by the ECU and should not have changed due to your accident repair job. Anyway, your pre-accident idling RPM of 1000 (assuming it was without switching on AC) was on the higher side and 800 RPM is better. Please check and confirm that idling RPM rises when you switch on the AC.

5) The warning light (a steering with an exclamatory mark on it) that you have mentioned is not there on my Swift and I am unable to comment on it. Your User Manual will definitely tell you what this light indicates.

Nishan Thankappan said...

Hi Debashis,
Yes, that was a miss from my end of not picking up the extended warranty, the 24 months duration was done on 30th Oct. Can it be picked up now?
I thought so; there should not be any link with the EGR issue & the accident. Taking your advice having fixed an appointment tomorrow to have the valve cleaned, would have it done with me around, would keep you posted.
On the RPM front, earlier it used to hover around a 900 RPM without AC & around a 1000 with A/C… Now it’s 800 without A/C and touching around between a 950 to 1000 with A/C..
Did the check on the warning light in the manual, it said as long as it goes off post the engine is switched on it should be fine, which it does.
While reading the manual, It also says if the SVS light blinks and remains on in ignition (which does in my case) is would be an issue with the immobilizer of the car, needs to be check … what are your thoughts on this?
Another observation now is, when I switch on the ignition now, there is a slight upward movement in the odo dial, which immediately falls back to normal state. When I checked with the mechanic he said it happens due the current flow (which sounded a little lame) & that I would have missed noticing it earlier. Any thoughts on this?
Really appreciate the time you have taken to help out….

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Nishan,

1) Now that your original 2-yr warranty has expired, I don’t think you can buy the extended warranty.

2) After your EGR valve assembly is cleaned and reassembled, you will need to have your existing DTCs (diagnostic trouble codes) cancelled using Tech-2. You may thereafter carefully observe the warning lights. If some lights are still not normal, there would be a new DTC which has to be found using Tech-2 and appropriate corrective action taken.

3) Warning lights behaving erratically sometimes indicates a failing battery. Check out http://dmandhismarutisuzukiswiftvdi.blogspot.com/2011/04/erratic-operation-of-water-in-fuel.html

4) I had never noticed the initial movement of the speedometer needle before. After seeing your comment, I checked out my car and I did see a slight temporary (for fraction of a second) movement of the needle when I switched on the ignition. However, switching off and then again switching on ignition did not cause similar movement of the needle. Probably the needle movement occurs when ignition is switched on after a gap of many hours (I’ll keep an eye on this for my own education). I have no idea why this happens but my guess is that it may have something to do with a diagnostic self-check of the communication between ECU and combination meter.

Nishan Thankappan said...

Hi Debashis,
Sure would do as advised.
Yes I did go through that discussion, will also have the battery health check done as well.
Yes, Ironically I hadn’t noticed it ever before either. I presume the same; it has got to with the self-check. Have seen this as a feature in few of the latest vehicle’s on both the Odo & Tacho, had assumed it was cosmetic, however seems to have a purpose.
Will keep you posted once the job on the valves are done and the diagnostics completed.
Many thanks….

Nishan Thankappan said...

Dear Debashis,
Got the job on the car done the day before. It was eventful; it was like a 1 Technician, 1 Electrician, 1 Service Advisor & me on a mission figure out what the problem was.
We 1st got the unit open, its basis an actuator, did not really find any carbon deposit on it. However cleaned it with the decarbonising solution. However post fixing it back it refused to come on, the diagnostic tool continued to show that the valve is off & the warning light continued to glow.
Then popped up the question if the valve was faulty, then there was a decision made to exchange the valve with one of another swift which was around to test & check if it was an issue with the Valve, when tried, did not work as well & my valve was working perfect on the Swift.
Then the next question was on the electrical, the electrician had noticed there was a slight difference in the current flow between mine and the Swift.
We then got the wiring removed and cleaned with the liquid and sand paper. Post reassembling, got the codes cancelled and there you go …. The Valves came on & was working perfectly … tested it for a while the warning sign did not come on. The Valve worked perfect on while the engine is cranked up and cuts off above 3.5 K RPM.
The core of the issue we realised was that during the body work of my car post-accident, the earthing wire was fixed on to a painted part due to which the earthing was not working right, consequently the supply to the actuator was not proper.
I feel if it was MASS they might have been able to figure out the problem quicker because of the frequency of such issues they encounter and also use of the Manual. Carnation being a Multi Brand outlet has to do with more of a trial and error learning.
Net of it, am happy that the issue is resolved and there was not cost that I incurred :-)

Thanks once again for your advice and guidance!

Cheers!

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Nishan,

I'm glad your car's problem was correctly identified and rectified. I need one clarification though -- did they dismantle only the electrical actuator or also the valve-cum-cooler assembly (see the pics in my blog). If your EGR valve hadn't been cleaned earlier, there should have been some carbon deposits on the valve-cum-cooler assy.

Ashok Bhatti said...

Hi Mr.Debashis Mukherjee

How are you ? My name is Ashok Bhatti, from Delhi. Many times I noticed in my Swift VDI 2007 that the SVS light is turning off / on randomly when I start or drive the car and also in parallel there is a random knocking sound (like tak tak tak....)in the car's engine. The sound is very rare and random in nature, even I dont know the instance when it occurred last time. In idling situation the RPM of the engine can seen as increasing / decreasing with the soung in randon fashion.I am wondering the sound is due to excessive carbon deposits inside the EGR valve making its operation erratic?
Need your opinion please.

Ashok Bhatti

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Bhatti,

From the symptoms described by you, it does not appear to be a problem connected with EGR system.

Such problem could be due to ECU malfunction or a loose electrical connection.

The first thing you should do is to take your car to a MASS and check if there are any DTC (diagnostic trouble code) registered in your ECU. The DTC will reveal where the fault lies.

Ashok Bhatti said...

Dear Mr. Mukherjee,

Thanks for your valuable reply. What about the noise in the engine which I explained in my last blog.

Reg,
Ashok Bhatti

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Bhatti,

I'm unable to comment about the abnormal sound without hearing it. Please proceed as advised earlier.

Ashok Bhatti said...

Dear Mr. Mukherjee,

Today I took my Swift VDI to 3 diffrent Maruti Autorised Service Stations and explained the problem to each. But unfortunately (or fortunately)no sound observed , no SVS was on, no other abnormal behave was observed. Each mechnic okayed it...and while I was coming back to my home again SVS light turned on....I swiched off and on engine...and SVS disappeared....huh....I am totally confused.....


Ashok Bhatti

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Mr. Bhatti,

Did the mechanic at the MASS connect Tech-2 and check for DTC?

Ashok Bhatti said...

Dear DM,

Mechanics did not check the DTC with tech2 as there was no SVS light was on at that moment of time.....

Ashok Bhatti

Nishan Thankappan said...

Dear Debashis,
Apologies for the delayed response, was travelling on business for a while. You are correct, i actually just reviewed the pics you have put up in detail. They indeed had only dismantled only the electrical actuator and not the valve-cum-cooler assembly. I suppose in a way it was for the better i guess since the fault was anyway with the earthing.

At 30k service schedule do they clean it by default?

Regards,
Nishan.

Thomas said...

Dear Debashis ji,
Being an owner of a Diesel Dzire , I used to regularly surf the web on useful information , today just accidently bumped into this site. I could not hold myself from Congratulating you on the broad knowledge on the Latest technology in Cars. I had read the entire post in one sitting. Pretty much happy to see the questions from verious owners as well as your details reply and support. Thanks again. after going through your posts , I had confirmed on one thing . Its time to replace my Car battery. I would like to take your valuable information on whether DIN 65 for swift diesel is a universal code for battery type or does it varies from Brand to Brand ? if so what battery code should I be looking at ?. Thanks in advance.
Thomas Jacob , Bangalore

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Jacob,

The most important parameter in a battery is its AH (Ampere-Hour) capacity. DIN 65 batteries have 65 Ampere-Hour capacity. You may buy any battery which is rated DIN 65 or higher, as long as it has the same form factor (it should fit in your car in the space provided for battery using the same brackets / fasteners / terminals).

Pradeep Kumar said...

Hi DM,

I have a Swift VDI which has done 85000 KMs. Recently I got it serviced by a non Maruthi service Centre. This was one of the biggest blunder I can say, he open the engine to shut a check light and opened and closed EGR multiple times.

Now, When I left the car at Maruthi Service station, they diagonized the issue and they mentioned there is an air leak in EGR Valve and needs to be replaced.

My car emmitts a lot of black smoke after this damage, and there is drop in the pick up and milage.

Please advice if you know the cost of EGR Valve and I heard that it is not easily avaialable. The dealer has placed the order for the past 30 days, and he is saying there is a back order with Maruthi.

Pradeep.

jibinzzz said...

sir, i like to know the stock engine oil in maruthi suzuki swift vdi? the vehicle had a great performance at the beginning but after the the first service the perfomence have gone way too low..i don't know what kind of shitty oil the dealer have used in my vehicle... sir please recommend the right oil for my vehicle

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Hi jibinzzz,

The recommended oil is Mobil Delvac Super 1300 15W40. I have written earlier in my blog about a situation I faced when a Maruti service centre was about to put wrong engine oil in my car. One needs to be careful and personally ensure which oil is being put.

Having said that, I must add that a wrong oil may not cause a drastic fall in the car's performance which is readily noticeable. If your car performance has deteriorated after servicing, you need to take it back to your MASS and let them investigate the problem.

dilip kuttuva said...

Hi Mukherjee Sir,

Thanks for helping people like me. I bought Ritz (LDI) on 31-Dec-2011. My car was very good till 5000 kms / second service. After covering 5238 kms, I gave for second service. After that, problem started.I was hearing some kind of noice while driving idle in 5th gear (after removing my legs from cluth,brake and acclerator).I went to MASS and they confimed the sound is coming while going in noice and sound disappears, if the cluth is pressed. So, they told there is a problem with 5th gear releaser bearing and they changed the releaser bearing ( I am not sure whether they changed or not, but they claimed they changed). But, it didn't solve my problem. Then they raised concerns with Maruti engineers.

The feedback that they got from Maruti engineers are it depends between vehicle to vehicle. For some RITZ, this sound will come and for some RITZ this sound will not come.

At the same time, the MASS guys, tightend all the parts (claimed by the managers).But, somehow, the sound was not coming. But, there starts the second problem.

Now, if I go beyond 80, some heavy fan sound is coming in my vehicle. After crossing 80, the sound disappears.I raised the same issue with MASS manager, even he confirmed that sound. But he don't have any answer.

I am totally confused now.When I searched google for turbo, I got your link.

Please guide me.

Thanks a lot

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Kuttuva,

I am unable to fully understand the problem in your car and therefore can't offer any solutions. But you must take up the issue with the Regional or Zonal Manager of Maruti (Service). Their contact particulars (mobile, email) are supposed to be displayed at all MASS. Send them email and meet them till Maruti is able to satisfy fully. Don't make the mistake of going to a 'local' garage.

prajith said...

Hello sir,

Needed some information on my swiftVDI ,which i purchased in year 2010 DEC , have made it about 28000 KM , just recently had traveled from Bangalore to Bandipur during my travel back to Bangalore had slowed down on a speed barker and eventually gave the throtel in the 4th gear it's self but the car stopped. Hear one thing wrong on my end was I did not change the gear from 4th to second.

And also the car did not start for next 5 to 10 min of my several tries mad.
I parked the car aside and waited about 15 - 20 min to see for the last try , then i saw it just started with one turn of the key. From there on there was no issue at all

Now the question is there any procedure to start the car while running .
And are we seeing any kind lag which is growing up in my car

Surendar Javahar said...

Hi Debashis,
i own a swift 2009 july i didnt have any problem. suddenly i face nowadays while i drive in top gear automatically engine is off then i will start mileage also dropped inside city 13km/L pick up also dropped i beleved maruthi service masters chennai and left for service they told we need to clean the EGR so it wil resolve all my problems but i was wondering why for cleanig EGR carbon 3800 is it really worth spending?
waiting for your reply
Thanks

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Javahar,

The question of cleaning the EGR valve would arise ONLY IF the ECU shows an error code about EGR valve. What is the error code?

Godwin Carabott said...

hello i have a suzuki swift 07 model ddis and the svs is on after i drive about 10 min i made a test and its giving error code p1200,can someone help me pls?

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Godwin,

I have a list of DTC's which I photocopied from the Swift (diesel) Workshop Manual. I just checked this list but P1200 is not there. Are you sure it is P1200?

martin pedersen said...

hi debashis

im currently doing some work on my 1.3jtd engine and i took off the inlet pipe on the intake manifold.. do you know what that wird large round thing that sits center in the intake manifold is..? it restricts the airflow into my manifold.. so i do want to remove it..

Karthik bakthavachalu said...

Dear Sir,

I facing similar issue as you listed. First they cleared the code, but it appeared again and they said the EGR value needs to be cleaned, but even after of cleaning the EGR the malfunction light came again also with thick smoke which was not there before. Now they say they I may need to change the EGR valve and they say this will fix the issue. I'm confused as they said this replacement will cost 15K. Please help.

Karthik bakthavachalu said...

Dear Debashis,

Mine Swift VDI as got similar issue of what you have mentioned in your blog. Initially they erased the malfunction light and said it nothing to worry. The light came again and took the service station and they said the cleaning the EGR will fix the issue as mine has done 47800 Kms. They did the cleaning & erased the code and took delivery of the car. I noticed heavy smoke coming out of the exhaust after cleaning the EGR and malfunction light came again the next day.

Took the car again to the service centre, now they said they will clean the solenoid once again and see. Still it didn't work. Now finally they say they need to replace the EGR valve and this could fix the issue. I am totally confused. They say it could cost some Rs15000 for replacing the EGR valve. Requesting your advice. Thank you.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Karthik,

Please ask the MASS what exactly is the problem suspected by them, i.e., is the solenoid actuator not working? In the EGR valve, the main component that is likely to become defective is the solenoid actuator (the electrical device which opens or closes the EGR valve). The Valve itself would rarely become defective -- all it needs is periodical cleaning.

Another thing -- while cleaning the EGR valve did they also clean the Intercooler? Engine oil sometimes collects in the intercooler.

Adhip.S7rid3r said...

Debashis bhai!

on my swift vdi 2011 the SVS lights doesn't turns off until the engine starts.
And after crossing 100kmph the SVS light flashes for a second and car drops the pickup for that one second!

What could be the possible cause?

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Adhip.S7rid3r,

Sorry, I'm unable to diagnose this problem from the symptoms described by you. Please have the DTC code identified by a MASS. Only the DTC code will reveal the actual problem.

Amit K said...

Dear Mr. Debashis
Firstly I appreciate your time and effort to help one and all on the problems affecting Suzuki Swift.
I am one ardent lover and proud owner of Swift Vdi -2008 which has done 70000kms on its odo.
To give you a detailed description of the problem faced, these are the following incidents in sequence:
- purchased a 2008 Vdi 66000 Kms done and service due at 69000 Kms
- after having a great experience of 4000 Kms, gave it for servicing at Maruti authorised service centre(as it has always been serviced at MASS)
- after a week post servicing, one fine morning after handling over the car keys for valet,the parking assistant calls me saying there's a fuel leak from my vehicle.
- I call up the MASS and inform him and the service advisor asks me to get the vehicle towed and get it to the service station.
- I promptly arrange for the towing vehicle and hand over the car to the advisor. He assures me to call after inspection and Inform what the problem is all about.
- later in the afternoon I get a call from the advisor saying that the O ring of the high pressure fuel pump is worn out and needs replacement and the car will be ready by late evening.
- I make arrangements to reach the service station to collect the car In the evening. On reaching I get a shocker saying that the oil seal of the high pressure pump is worn out and the oil seal is not available in the market without the high pressure pump which costs around 20k.
- technician also informs me that due to this O Ring going bad, diesel is getting mixed with the engine oil and the engine oil level has increased significantly.
- after having a discussion at length with the technician, he changes the O ring and asks me to check the oil level each morning to ensure that the leakage is not there.
- next 2 days I find the oil level to be ok but notice a leakage under the car. I took the car to the MASS and they inform me that the high pressure pump needs to be replaced as there is a diesel leakage.
- on inspecting further myself, I find that the leakage is not diesel but actually oil. The advisor assures me that he will inspect the car thoroughly and revert with the work required to be carried out.
- advisor calls me mid afternoon saying that only a packing needs to be done to plug the oil leak and the car will be ready thereafter.
- on reaching to collect the vehicle, the advisor informs me that the diesel leakage still persists and the high pressure diesel pump needs to be replaced.

What i fail to understand is that if there was no diesel leakage for the next 2 days after plugging the O Ring, the why the need to change the pressure pump after plugging the oil leak?
Secondly, is the high pressure pump repairable by any chance?

I know my detailed description is just too lengthy but I would be glad if you could just guide me through.

Thanks in advance.

Amit k
Amitk@bharatfreight.com

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Amit,

1) I do not know for sure whether the high pressure fuel pump is repairable or not. But from your experience it seems that certain repairs (like replacement of oil seal) are possible.

2) It seems that your MASS attempted to rectify the problem by replacing the oil seal (O-ring) but since the quality of repair was not good, it failed. You should ask them to explain why the O-ring replacement failed and why it cannot be attempted once more.

3) If the MASS is unable to satisfactorily clarify your doubts, please contact the Regional Service Manager of Maruti Suzuki.

4) If the O-ring replacement is not a proper solution for the defect, changing the pump would be the only other option.

5) If diesel has got mixed with your engine oil, you must change the engine oil after repairs are completed. Otherwise the engine may be seriously damaged.

prabhjot singh said...

hello sir.
As you suggested me to change my Swift battery i have changed it and go to the ECU reset. he attached the digital meter with it and delete the error. water in fuel filter light has gone and not come yet again but svs light is coming continue. it is not going flash off after 3 seconds of turning on the ignition. so suggest me what to do and what its mean. its indication of check the engine or its maintenance light.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Prabhjot,

You should take your car to MASS. They will find out the problem by connecting Tech-2 scan tool.

prabhjot singh said...

hello sir
I had visited to the mass as you suggested, when he connect the scanner to my car, but there is no any error find out. so i was surprised to get this. i told him to connect scanner again with car but there is no any error find out. but the svs light is coming yet. so suggest me how tor resolve this issue.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Prabhjot,

I'm sorry, I am unable to make any suggestion on how to resolve your problem.

SBS Ayurveda said...

Thank you very much for such valuable information. Recently I faced a problem with my EGR malfunctioning. Though EGR was cleaned but problem was same with the performance then that local mechanic closed the valve of EGR, by virtue of which car is showing good performance but after a week a yellow warning light indicating exhaust pipe is now coming up. Kindly advice what sort of thing is going on.............

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear SBS Ayurveda,

Even if the EGR system is bypassed, as your local mechanic seems to have done, the engine will continue to perform well. However, your emissions (NOx) will increase and a warning light will continue to glow. You may continue to use your car ignoring the warning light.

Jacob Thomas said...

Dear Mr. Debashis Mukherjee,

My swift ldi 2008 model is now running @ 1,13000 kms. About 5 months ago turbo intercooler made whistling sound and replaced with new one . Cost around 14000 for the spare alone. Then warning light was not going off after engine started. This time i took to a local workshop and they said egr valve is blocked. So egr valve cleaned and MIL lights went off. Now its almost 6 to 7 months. Now again MIL lights are on. So i took it to maruti authorised sai service. They are saying egr is blocked and to replace it. Cost they said 28000 for the spare. They also said turbo is catching so much oil from leakage from engine. Tell me shud i replace egr or ask him to clean it only. why this is happening frequently.

Awaiting your reply
Rgds
jacob/kochi

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Jacob Thomas,

When excessive oil is found on the air intake side (intercooler), the likely reasons are a worn engine (piston rings and cylinder liners) or worn turbocharger bushes / seals. For a modern diesel engine like yours, 1,13,000 km is too little mileage for the engine requiring to be overhauled. Turbocharger bushes / seals could be the more likely problem. Are you keeping track of your engine oil level (is it falling abnormally)? Also, is your engine producing a lot of smoke? If too much engine oil is getting into the intake and burning in the engine, the EGR valve is likely to get choked more frequently.

If there is a problem with your turbo, MASS will simply replace it. But there are private workshops which can repair turbos.

I don't recommend changing the EGR valve. The root cause needs to be identified and tackled first. Even if your EGR valve is choked and the warning light is coming, you can continue driving your car without causing any damage.

If a problem is found with your turbo, it would be advisable to rectify that first. Thereafter, you can get your EGR valve cleaned. Changing the EGR valve now would be a waste of money.



Kamalakar T said...

Hi DM,
I have a 2013 Swift Dzire VDI which ran 17000 KM. I have a problem with the car pickup. When the car is at 2000RPM there is Turbo Boost/punch felt. However rest all is fine. I gave the car for service and MASS cleaned the Air filter and stated that there is no problem with the car, however I have two other similar cars Dzire VDI and Ertiga VDI, which I drove and felt that my car is lagging in that TURBO BOOST at 2000 RPM. Please advise what should I do. The CAR is under the extended warranty.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Kamalakar T,

I'm unable to diagnose your problem from the inputs provided. The only thing I can suggest is that you should take your car for a drive on a highway, go up to 100 kmph or more, and see how it performs at higher speeds for extended durations.

Kamalakar T said...

Hi DM,
Thank you for the quick response. Sorry I guess I couldn't explain the problem well, to be short, when the car is accelerated to 2000 RPM, the turbo boost/punch is not felt. I drove other cars and felt my car lacks that feel. But the car easly touches 100-120 km when accelerated to 2000-2500 RPM.Yesterday only I came to my native place on higway which is 400km. Pls advise.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Kamalakar T,

Since your car easily touches 100-120 kmph, I don't see any real problem. All cars have a different 'feel' and you have to accept that. Unless you have some other problematic symptoms such as abnormally high fuel consumption or smoke from exhaust, I don't think you need to lose sleep over this.

Kamalakar T said...

Hi Debashis,
Thank you for the Quick response. Truly I feel this Forum to be very informative & Interesting.

Tanmay Agarwal said...

Dear Debashish

Firstly, I would like to say that your blog on EGR valve is excellent. I was looking for the root cause of the problem and its remedy in my car and found your blog.

Secondly, I would like to put up my problem, so that you may provide your expert opinion. I have Maruti LDi make July 2007 with mileage of around 1,41,000 KMS. Almost one year back, I started getting "Service Your Vehicle Soon" sensor light along with the "Fuel Filter" light on the left of that SVS light. I got oil filer, engine oil, air filter, fuel filter changed as part of the regular service by my mechanic (not at MASS). The lights did not get away. I went to a MASS mechanic, he told me that they send their cars to a shop (only shop in whole Rejasthan as he has special machines for Diesel Engines) for getting injectors checked. I went there and the guy told me that the Injectors are fine. He had a pair of devices connected to each other by Bluetooth, of which one was connected in the socket of my car below steering wheel and another was handheld with him for controlling the car. He said that battery needs replacement. He cleared all the values in the logging system. After a month, I got the battery replaced, still the lights come up. I switch off the engine and restart and the lights are gone. This I have been practising for months now. I forgot to tell you that I took the car to that special shop with two problems, one for the sensor lights and second for the poor fuel average of around 13 Kms/litre (in city). Now, from two weeks I have been noticing that the car is emitting very dark black smoke. Though, there is no other problem like turbo lack or starting problem, etc. except the sensor lights and excessive black smoke. Also, I have never got EGR valve cleaned by my mechanic (as I was not aware off) after the first three free services at MASS.

I will not take the car to the MASS. Please, suggest what should I say to MASS because they do not allow to enter inside the workshop and perform lots of hit and trials, thereby forming a big bill.

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Tanmay,

First of all, I do not think that all MASS are always trying to cheat by inflating your repair cost. There are many competent and reasonable MASS. I owned 3 Maruti cars (M-800, Esteem, Swift) over the years and I always had my service / repairs done in MASS.

Only MASS have special diagnostic equipment which can reveal the fault codes which are essential for dignosing the problem. In your case, it seems that there could be multiple problems such as (but not limited to) faulty injectors, clogged EGR valve, choked intercooler and/or defective ECU. Please go to a reputed MASS, tell them all the symptoms and have your problem properly analyzed. In case you have any doubts or apprehensions about the estimates provided by them, you should contact the Regional Service Manager of Maruti.

Tanmay Agarwal said...

Dear Debashis

Thanks for your valuable suggestions. I will do the needful.

Regards
Tanmay Agarwal

prabhjot singh said...

hello sir. If u have any valuable suggestion regarding my problem pls suggest otherwise ignore. There is rat or mice in my car. I have see this and they cut my seat covers and this could be also cut all the wiring of my car. pls suggest what should i do to put the rat or mice out of my car.

mohan said...

I have ERTIGA VDi which was purchased in 2012 and clocked just 21000 km. Recently I had pick-up problem . when revolutions goes beyond 2.5 or speed 80km/hr or both the pickup comes down.Referred to Maruti directly at chennai who advised local MASS to check and rectify the problem. MASS says EGR has to be replaced at cost of 8400/ . The same MASS does my regular servicing and they had not leaned EGR any time in the past.
what is your adie

Mohanan
Chennai

mohan said...

Dear Mr Debasish

Is EGR generally comes under warranty>?
If it fails , then replacement has to be free?

could you please throw light on this
Regards

Mohanan P

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Mohanan,

I do not see any reason why EGR valve should not be covered under warranty. But it appears that your car does not have warranty cover any more.

If the MASS has diagnosed your pickup problem to be due to EGR valve, they should first clean the EGR valve rather than replacing it. Furthermore, if the EGR valve is defective, it will give rise to an error code and one of your warning lights should come on. Is this the case?

mohan said...

Dear Mr Debasish
I did not get any light indication on the instrument panel any time during these problems.

Actually the car is in my wife's name and when it was purchased I was not present But I was told that my son had taken extended warranty paying around 12000 which I suppose is for 2 years I am trying to locate the documents ( my son is out of chennai)

The car was purchased in November 2012 and with the additional warrantee the warrantee shall be till 2016 (2+2 years No? )

what is your opinion ?
regards

mohanan

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Mohanan,

If there is no warning light or error code, the problem may not be linked to EGR valve.

If your car is under extended warranty, they have to replace all defective parts free of cost. Please contact your area or zonal Service Manager of Maruti if MASS is being unhelpful or unprofessional.

mohan said...

Mr Debasish

I had taken up the problem with maruti chennai directly
They arranged with ASS for EGR valve replacement and have agreed to do it under extended warrantee

My present worry is the Non-indication on the instrument panel. what is the guarantee in future the indication will be there and how to ensure that?
regards

mohanan

Debashis Mukherjee said...

Dear Mr. Mohanan,

It is possible that your pickup problem may not get resolved after changing the EGR valve (because there is no indication now of EGR fault). But since your car is under extended warranty let MASS change the EGR and check if the problem gets solved.

mohan said...

Dear Mr Debasish

Maruti has changed the EGR and they feel no other problem could be identified
Any way I can assess the pickup problem only in case of along drive I will have to wait and see.
what else would you suggest?

Regards

Mohanan